The Base

  • January 23, 2016 at 8:41 AM #129094
    SergeDavidSergeDavid
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    A little preemptive note here as the central base building structure that when destroyed ends the the match has been talked about quite a bit though those threads are fairly buried by now. We’ll be spreading out the fort / base / whatever it is called into multiple structures with one dominant and some side buildings that must all be destroyed to claim victory. The reason for this “base structure” inside the defenders “base” is to help mitigate the threat of base dialing.

    For reference base dialing is the act of finding out where to stand and angle beforehand to hit the base and then do that in a live battle. It is generally thought of as a cheap move as this strategy is designed to leave you very close to your spawn and behind cover so that the defenders have to be almost on top of you to destroy your MAV and by the time they know what is going on and reach you unless they have fast enough scouts their base is either destroyed or just a few shots away.

    For example this is what Base Dialing looks like in Chromehounds which is similar enough to MAV to understand what is going on. Imagine those with more than 1 person dialing to such as 12 for a max team and how fast a base could die from that.

    Also a heads up I’ll be calling the main building itself the base from here on and the complex of buildings including stuff such as turrets and walls the fortress.

    For visuals I picture something along the lines of this image
    http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4477/preview05.3.jpg
    It has a main large area with an inference in the front with an arm stretching out on either side. On the top can be an observation deck and maybe even a radar dish or leave a few dishes for the support buildings. The building itself is used as the HQ where all the personal goes and is an evacuation shelter so it has to be beefy and commanding standing at least 5~7 stories tall (about twice the size of a mav).

    For the support buildings which range between 4 to 12 depending on territory size / players joining the battle / etc. we can do a lot with them. They are support buildings so they should offer additional assets to the core structure. My ideas for these include radar buildings / solar buildings / liquid storage for things like water or fuel and maybe even large generators to provide even more power. Other ideas also include turrets that fire howitzers almost straight up for long range fire as they randomly attack any enemy within network area that isn’t inside the fortress proper. These sub buildings could also provide in / out of map benefits such as the howitzer ones mentioned / energy generation for those howitzers / boost to network range of all uplinks / an uplink at the base itself / etc.

    For larger bases an additional structure that can be tacked onto the back of this main building or even a secondary level below it can be used. I’d imagine some sort of ramp type structure attached on it for launching things into space which has it’s own health pool but is also part of the base itself.

    I’d really need to just hand draw some of these concepts as I just can’t get the visuals I’d want with my mouse. I have attached a quick and dirty artwork I did in unity to give the sort of effect I’ve got an idea for.

    Attachments:
    1. baseidea

      baseidea.png

    "I think you are going to like what I am doing even more than I like your comparison tool and I like your tool a LOT"

    January 23, 2016 at 9:20 PM #129131
    Cyberdogs7
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    I MAY, actually have building concepted and roughed out in 3d. Maybe. Hey, what is this random file on my computer?

    Attachments:
    1. BuildingConcept

      BuildingConcept.png

    January 24, 2016 at 8:03 AM #129140
    SergeDavidSergeDavid
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    Dang that’ll raise the bar on building quality quite a bit. My main concern with it is how durable it is vs how durable it looks. I’d like it a lot more if it looked sturdier while keeping most of that nice design intact which is probably just building up the base of it with more concrete type infrastructure. If not having this as a part of the complex and having another sister half bunker type building next to it would be nice.

    It reminds me of Tom Clancy’s End War which I sorta want to play again even though they killed it like they killed Chromehounds. I really liked the premise of this game, streamlined base management in battle while focusing on battles with the main base management outside of battle. Anyway.

    This reminds me that their “capture points” design works well for support buildings “The one with the crossed out L over it”
    http://static5.gamespot.com/uploads/scale_super/gamespot/images/2009/056/reviews/935301-939668_20090226_004.jpg

    We’ve got the base part and then just attach what it does to it such as a radar dish that swings left to right / solar panels / a single howitzerisk weapon that angles at a 75 degree so it is angled higher than 45 degrees / etc.

    "I think you are going to like what I am doing even more than I like your comparison tool and I like your tool a LOT"

    January 24, 2016 at 8:30 AM #129142
    Cyberdogs7
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    This is not the only piece so if it’s more fragile looking, its ok.

    Attachments:
    1. 1_1

      1_1.jpg

    2. 3_1

      3_1.jpg

    January 24, 2016 at 10:30 AM #129151
    SergeDavidSergeDavid
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    I’d take elements of all 3 and bam!

    "I think you are going to like what I am doing even more than I like your comparison tool and I like your tool a LOT"

    January 24, 2016 at 4:12 PM #129156
    Anvildude
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    I shall once again swoop in as the voice of ill omen.

    What, what and what?

    All three of those buildings are, well, confusing.

    Building one has what looks like the start of some good Refinery look to it, but the windows slathered all over suggest Office Building- which is it? And if its an industrial building with offices in it… Those are generally either sturdier or less sturdy than the building itself- this guy has heavy concrete construction, but with the sorts of in-and-out detailings that you only really find on steel-frame glass-curtain constructions- if you’re going to make it an industrial facility, lose the windows and the antennae, put in more vertical piping, and make the horizontal ‘shelf’ areas into ductwork or material channels. If you’re making it an office building, lose the piping, fix the windows so they’re basically everywhere, and accept that it will be very, very delicate.

    Building 2 has a lot of promise, but again it falls down with the windows- they’re just sorta stuck on the outside, with no consideration for whether or not there’s actual rooms behind them, and the pilar-units at the bottom could be evened out. The biggest issue this one has is that it seems to have been designed with no eye for having actual rooms inside- the pilar-bits have those deep grooves between them, and the top section is all over the place.. Even some of those things out, smooth some walls and make sure that there’s room for an inside, and it should be good- if a little fancy looking for a first or second generation colony structure.

    Building 3 looks like a church. Again, not really bad- at least this one could have rooms and elevators inside it- but still too far away from the story you’ve given us, of this being a relatively new colony. This building doesn’t really have anything structurally off about it, but unless you change the story so that the Earth corporations are setting themselves up as nigh religious figures to control the populace, and have towns or cities (even if only one) that have been there long enough for impressive looking buildings to become important socio-politically, it’s too big and too fancy for a singular structure. It screams “Governor’s Palace” or “Company-Cult cathedral” rather than Corporate Headquarters- that could easily be fixed, though, by changing the finnial-like tower toppers into more traditional antennae complexes, and solidifying the white pie-sliced pillars into solid towers, so that the central one can be the sight of a penthouse office overlooking the courtyard.

    Granted, a lot of the immediate issues with them are texture-based- but the structures overall seem to have been built with a focus on external interest and detail, as opposed to function. I’d suggest that for future buildings, start your designing by choosing either pre or post-Bauhaus construction (that is, is the main support external walls, or internal columns- the difference between windowless factories and glass-faced skyscrapers), placing the main work areas, the main hallways/thoroughfairs, and the main elevator shafts (as well as doors- doors are more important than windows), and then designing your structure around that. Keep in mind the materials being used- glass might be something of a luxury, early (and therefore important) buildings might be constructed with pieces of the first spacecraft that brought them there, how common is steel or titanium or aluminum, and also keep in mind the environment they’re in- if inside climate-controlled biodomes, they might be crazy with nooks and doors and balconies- if outside on a fully terraformed moon you’ll need to deal with water runoff and wind, and if the IceWorld Europa then you need to worry about ice buildup and access points.

    What kinds of buildings were those supposed to be, and exactly how long since first-settlement were they meant to be built?

    The Crotchety Old Man of MAV

    January 24, 2016 at 5:09 PM #129158
    LegacyElite84LegacyElite84
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    I’d say make a base something like a hybrid of the mech production facilities in Mech Assault 1 and 2 and the Chromehounds HQ. Make it look like a frontal encampment that can cater almost every situation, albeit a bit small for a high number of M.A.V. servicing.

    Part time filthy. Part time opportunist. Full time goat. "Holy f*** that was the greatest thing I have heard from your keyboard." - Cyberdogs7 on my top quality shitposting.

    January 25, 2016 at 5:37 AM #129165
    SergeDavidSergeDavid
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    One thing I am sure of is that I want the asset that is used for the Siege games (after the model is updated) to be attached to the Assault base so the Assault Variant is a built up version of it. This cements the relationship of the two buildings as being important while showing how much more important the assault version is with its more impressive size.

    If we build the building into multiple parts we can also expand it as the territory grows in strength to show off its increased stats.

    We can start with a more frail looking building like example 1 as the Siege + low level assault building. Then expanding with more concrete bunkerisk structure around and under it until the frailer part is sort of the “old” structure while the stronger war time structure is where everyone goes to now.

    These buildings where probably constructed before this war broke out for other reasons which leads us to why they are important enough to fight over.

    "I think you are going to like what I am doing even more than I like your comparison tool and I like your tool a LOT"

    January 25, 2016 at 9:18 AM #129166
    RA2lover
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    What about mitigating base dialing by making defenders more aware that it’s happening or simply making a dialer’s task more difficult?

    For example, a facility or two could be used as a dedicated radar able to detect artillery fire directed towards the base and inform the defenders where the artillery is located at. This could also be fed into counter-battery turrets shooting back at the dialer(forcing him to move to somewhere else and re-aim every salvo or two, or forcing the attacker team to locate and destroy the radars/turrets). Alternatively, a CRAM system could keep artillery from dealing significant amounts of damage to the base until destroyed.

    January 25, 2016 at 4:06 PM #129168
    Anvildude
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    Ooh, you know what would be neat? Perimiter alarms. Relatively fragile structures set around the base at a certain distance or at certain locations (with access roads, of course) that sound sirens if they detect incoming rockets/howitzers and/or enemy M.A.V.s. They’d be great targets for Scouts, give a really good reason to have Jammers, and add some nice immersion into the game- making the base a little more part of the world/action and giving a better sense of urgency when they sound.

    You could even give them a limited ability to shoot down incoming rounds- not enough ammo to last the whole game (or time limit- basically, if you wanna play peekaboo halfway through, they’re free to Dial), aimed in a cone above them (so as to not interfere with close-range combat or base dropping), not enough fire rate to be able to stop a concentrated attack (rewarding teams that dedicate themselves to that playstyle with, say, 3 or more dedicated LRFS), and being delicate, a quick Scout might be able to make a hole in the defensive perimiter.

    The Crotchety Old Man of MAV

    March 5, 2016 at 2:58 PM #130239
    SergeDavidSergeDavid
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    While I was thinking during lunch I wonder if the houses “filler buildings” can be spawned semi procedurally so as the power of the territory grows they spread slowly across the map so we could get one that is so built up such as a faction capital that it really becomes a map wide city map. (i’m thinking that could be pretty interesting on maps like new amazon or No Mans Pass v2.)

    The other thing I think is that the base should be created with lots of houses, and then when you add a new special building like say refineries or bunkers they would take over locations used by the filler houses so that we don’t encounter a base filled with holes because Walls + Turrets are all maxed out but there is zero economic upgrades so those locations are empty. Imagine Giant Leap with more buildings but the refinery area has zero buildings / storage, it would feel off with the hole as everything else is built up but that is lacking.

    it should be “fairly” simple to have set variance where if “no building” then “house filler version 1,2,3,4 here” the building shouldn’t be too bad as the logic of “where to place stuff” only needs to be done after a building is permanently changed so it is possible it doesn’t have to be done every onload.

    "I think you are going to like what I am doing even more than I like your comparison tool and I like your tool a LOT"

    December 8, 2016 at 12:28 AM #134650
    Anvildude
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    AHA! I have a word for the architectural style of those buildings!

    BRUTALIST

    Concrete, metal, few windows (and what ones there are are small and/or inset into the facade), and imposing in scale and design.

    The Crotchety Old Man of MAV

    December 8, 2016 at 6:39 AM #134652
    Cyberdogs7
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    BRUTALIST

    It’s good, because that is the exact art direction I gave to the artist 🙂

    December 8, 2016 at 7:51 AM #134655
    Anvildude
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    That’s an actual School of Architecture, you know. Popular in the- what was it, 1960s thru 1980s? Something like that.

    The Crotchety Old Man of MAV

    December 8, 2016 at 9:31 AM #134656
    Cyberdogs7
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    That’s an actual School of Architecture, you know. Popular in the- what was it, 1960s thru 1980s? Something like that.

    Yeah, I know. Popular fat the high 1960 and waning out still to present day. I even hired the artist from Romania because he had the most exposure to the style, considering it was most popular in the old USSR and surrounding lands. It was popular in these regions due to the cheaper cost to build [due to the repeated elements] and the socialist ideals [everyone is the same]. Due to the heavy use of concrete in the construction and modular design, they also made for highly defensible positions in case of combat.

    It was a combination of all of these reasons, the history of the style, the inner meanings, and the visual ‘heftness’, that lead me to chose it as an inspiration for the architectural style of MAV buildings. Of course, there will be additional elements brought in that reflect the games more modern times and the general technology improvements, both in general and in construction techniques.

    Also, what I posted here are concepts. They do not reflect the exact items that will be making there way into the final game. However, you can see there was influence, as seen in the redone ‘HQ dish’ in siege mode.

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