Turrets in siege

  • May 13, 2017 at 9:27 AM #138403
    twaldowskitwaldowski
    Participant
    Staff Sergeant
    Total posts : 147

    I can’t find my original post on the topic of turrets blowing up so here goes a new one. I learned that in arena mode that the turrets self-destruct as a feature to prevent players from loading the map with turrets. I am playing siege games and tried an engineer build and watched my deployed turrets blow up after about 30 seconds. I have seen enemy turrets do the same but not all the time. Can you confirm the behavior in siege mode is that the turrets persist and if they blow up by themselves it is a bug?

    May 13, 2017 at 7:30 PM #138408
    Bombdog StudiosBombdog Studios
    Forum Admin
    Sergeant
    Total posts : 77

    Blowing up due to time in siege would be a bug.

    Were they taking hear damage?

    May 19, 2017 at 10:03 AM #138470
    twaldowskitwaldowski
    Participant
    Staff Sergeant
    Total posts : 147

    My plan was to place a pair just over a ridge in crater arena and I would draw an enemy MAV between them. They took no fire.

    May 19, 2017 at 12:09 PM #138476
    FenixFenix
    Participant
    Captain
    Total posts : 1410

    The current AI rarely prioritizes turrets over enemy MAVs, you usually will have to die first before the AI turns its attention on your turrets.

    The Hero of Unsung Parts, defender of the part count.

    May 19, 2017 at 1:45 PM #138477
    twaldowskitwaldowski
    Participant
    Staff Sergeant
    Total posts : 147

    I have seen enemy turrets blow up without me firing a shot in their direction. And in this specific case I was preparing a battlefield and the turrets were not yet in sight. I will experiment further.

    May 19, 2017 at 2:16 PM #138478
    twaldowskitwaldowski
    Participant
    Staff Sergeant
    Total posts : 147

    I experimented by mounting a Heavy Turret deployment system and siege on crater arena. As you probably now the bases are each behind the large rock formations at the north and south of the map. I immediately deployed a turret that would be invisible to my foes. I was wrong about the time, it was not 45 seconds – it was 20 seconds; then poof and I have dust. I deployed another and again after 20 seconds gone with the wind. I reserved the other two for close combat engagement. When I deployed another all three enemies were in my grill and I have to admit with all the smoke and dodging and general boom-boom I could not determine if in fact an enemy engaged with the turret.

    I then proceeded to deploy with all five turret types and deployed them one after another thinking there was a chance the problem was associated with only the heavy type. Alas not to be. I watched my neat line of turrets self destruct one by one, kind of sad really…..

    May 19, 2017 at 8:09 PM #138481
    Bombdog StudiosBombdog Studios
    Forum Admin
    Sergeant
    Total posts : 77

    Good to know, thank you!

    May 20, 2017 at 7:18 AM #138483
    FenixFenix
    Participant
    Captain
    Total posts : 1410

    Actually, I can confirm this, not necessarily a bug but definitely an oversight in the stats of turrets.

    It’s due to a combination of the map’s ambient heat and the exceedingly low heat tolerance of turrets (the low heat tolerance was something I was aware of, though that was during days when fps affected heat causing them to instantly pop when exposed to my flamers, though with the change to the heat system that stopped happening).
    I attempted Twaldowski’s 5 turret experiment starting up a local siege match with no AI on No Man’s Pass (the coldest map) and nothing happened to them even after approximately 6-7 minutes, then did the same in Blind Alley and they popped slightly faster than Twaldowski described at 17 seconds approx since Blind Alley is hotter than Crater Arena.

    Nice find.

    Attachments:
    1. screenshot_1848

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    2. screenshot_1850

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    The Hero of Unsung Parts, defender of the part count.

    May 20, 2017 at 7:26 AM #138489
    FenixFenix
    Participant
    Captain
    Total posts : 1410

    While it is true that the turrets have differing ambient heats (heavy turrets glow red hot while sniper turrets are thermal neutral, take note that this comparison screenshot was taken before map ambient heat was introduced, I’ll have to take one current patch to compare), it didn’t seem to affect how quickly they blow up due to heat damage.

    EDIT: Well this was unexpected, their heat signatures have changed drastically between 0.6.14.2 (left) and 0.6.16.0 (right) (pardon my MAV being in the shot, didn’t have much time to work with before they blew up), it was obvious that the sniper turret would no longer be thermal neutral due to ambient heat but I was not expecting the heavy turret to have actually cooled down close to the heat levels of the other turrets, they don’t even look like they’re overheating.

    Attachments:
    1. Heat-Comparison-0.6.14_2

      Heat-Comparison-0.6.14_2.gif

    2. Heat-Comparison-0.6.16_0

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    The Hero of Unsung Parts, defender of the part count.

    May 20, 2017 at 10:16 AM #138497
    twaldowskitwaldowski
    Participant
    Staff Sergeant
    Total posts : 147

    Actually, I can confirm this, not necessarily a bug but definitely an oversight in the stats of turrets.

    If not a bug, then it’s a feature! Thanks for your work.

    May 20, 2017 at 11:40 AM #138498
    FenixFenix
    Participant
    Captain
    Total posts : 1410

    I say that because I believe turrets were likely intentionally made to be weak to heat damage so flamers and the like would be a potential counter to turrets (they need some kind of role now that they no longer serve the purpose of punting players with low-end laptops out of the game), this worked as intended before maps had their own local heat.
    When map specific heat was introduced the heat tolerance stat of turrets wasn’t adjusted accordingly, resulting in ambient heat of some maps to surpass their heat damage threshold.

    Simple as that.

    The Hero of Unsung Parts, defender of the part count.

    May 20, 2017 at 7:57 PM #138513
    Bombdog StudiosBombdog Studios
    Forum Admin
    Sergeant
    Total posts : 77

    I say that because I believe turrets were likely intentionally made to be weak to heat damage so flamers and the like would be a potential counter to turrets (they need some kind of role now that they no longer serve the purpose of punting players with low-end laptops out of the game), this worked as intended before maps had their own local heat.
    When map specific heat was introduced the heat tolerance stat of turrets wasn’t adjusted accordingly, resulting in ambient heat of some maps to surpass their heat damage threshold.

    Simple as that.

    Great find and you were able to save me hours of debugging time to get it fixed. I really appreciate the detail you went into! This will be addressed in the next patch!

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