Weekly Discussion Thread #254 : The Garage

  • December 7, 2016 at 8:57 PM #134646
    Cyberdogs7
    Participant
    Colonel
    Total posts : 3214

    So, it’s no mystery that there are some complaints about the garage and how to go about building a MAV.

    From the lack of controller support, to frustrating instances of a miss-click, to the simple lack of an undo, what are your biggest gripes?

    And because this is a discussion and not a complaint department 🙂 What would you suggest as a better method?

    Are the specific examples of a builder interface that you have used that works really well?

    If you could only change 1 thing about the garage, what would it be?

    What do you feel like the garage does well right now?

    As always, your ideas and feedback are greatly appreciated!

    December 7, 2016 at 10:13 PM #134648
    AxleNo7
    Participant
    First Lieutenant
    Total posts : 865

    adding a keyboard only/controller supported method of building would be great for a start. just rip off chromehounds system.

    another suggestion, add a way where we can just click on a connection point on one part and a connection point on another part to connect them, without the need to drag the part over with the mouse just point to point. would make it easier to move items when your dealing with a complicated build with tons of connection points everywhere hoping to line up the two points properly.

    and maybe a hotkey toggle for the gear icon button thing, that locks your tool icons in place, it could be when holding a part with M1 push M3 or M2( or when a part is already connected, hover over it and press M3), ‘couse sometimes getting to the gear icon when the part is on top of 20 other parts is a bitch, you have to spin your mav around and zoom in and out to find an angle where you can hit the rotate button

    December 7, 2016 at 11:16 PM #134649
    Anvildude
    Participant
    Major
    Total posts : 1884

    I’ll agree that the Controller system ought to more closely mimic the Chromehounds method- choose part to add, choose part to connect to, choose connection point, choose orientation. Maybe improve it a little by allowing for direction-sensitive choice instead of having to scan through a list one by one like CH did it- but that’s a nice, slow and reliable method of construction. Of course, I don’t know how much extra coding that would take, or how you’d manage the situations where you’re tying to place parts between others, but still.

    For Keyboard and Mouse- I think I’d like 2 things more than anything else.

    1: use the mouse to choose the connection point. So instead of click-and-drag (though I wouldn’t mind that staying in as an option) a click on the ‘Move’ icon would leave the part in-place, but highlight all the available attack points on the build or loose parts. Then, you choose one of those points with your second click, and the part warps to the point. HOWEVER! This goes to thing 2-

    2: When first placed, THE PART STAYS SELECTED. Instead of going on to further steps, the part remains the only thing you can interact with, and a special set of rotation icons comes up- pitch, roll and yaw, to allow you to fully control the connection of the part. Note, this means that the part would initially attach via a default point, and you would have to use the PRY icons to determine the entire orientation of the part, including which of its own attach points (we need a word for that- Node? Coupling!)- including which of its own couplings it attaches with. Then, using that handy second button the mouse has (or is that how you orient the camera? You could switch that to middle-mouse), you leave the part addition mode and go back to normal Garage mode.

    A couple minor things that would be nice- Wireframe mode. Don’t know what sorts of shaders you’d need, but it’d be nice if there was an option to make the ‘highlighted part’ go to a green wireframe instead of solid green. Next is if you could construct clusters or sub-assemblies of parts away from the MAV, then treat that as a single ‘part’ in terms of assembly. Maybe have an icon that makes all attached parts a ‘sub assembly’, like how Blender’s video-editing system allows you to make ‘meta strips’? Then once in-place, you could hit that button again and they’d act as individual parts. This could either be a separate screen/mini-garage (that could later be used for custom turrets, maybe? Or have a ‘saved sub-assemblies’ menu?) or just something you can do off to the side.

    Oh, and one last little quality-of-life improvement: have parts keep their orientation when you remove them from the MAV. Right now, whenever you take off, say, an armour sub-assembly via its spacer, the whole set re-orients to the spacer’s default orientation, which oftentimes messes it all up.

    December 8, 2016 at 5:48 AM #134651
    LegacyElite84LegacyElite84
    Moderator
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Total posts : 2516

    I’d like to see three systems for the Garage. The current system with slight modifications, a controller version, and a controller-esque mouse and keyboard version as a more time consuming, but friendlier “beginner” method of the Garage to use.

    For the current version, a Undo button (that undoes the undo if hit twice) would be the most appreciated feature. A second one would be instead of hovering over a part for the Options and having to play a bit to actually click the actual option, have it where you right click on the part, it turns green, and keeps the options menu open for that part, while disabling clicking on any of the build until the right click is hit again or hitting an “X” for the options. Possibly a “Change Part” in the options that swaps out the selected part for one you pick in the options menu. If the part being replaced is the same part type (LGT switching out for a LGT, angle spacer for angle spacer, hex weapon for hex weapon, etc.) the orientation of the part would be the same as the part being replaced. Also going to give a +1 for the keeping of orientation after removing a part from the MAV.

    For the controller version, select a part to place, select a part to attach it on, select a joint on that part, and from there allow switching between the joints of the part being placed (let’s say by hitting the X button) and rotating the part around the available axis (left and right bumper) at the same time, then confirm it. Paint can be done on a whole or per part basis. Weapon settings would be pretty standard.

    For the beginner (and should be default at first for new players/installs) try to mimic the step by step process of the controller with the arrow keys. Have it so mouse clicks on the MAV itself will not do anything. The mouse can however be used for the Options selection of a part with Right Click. Same with paint and weapons. Would be a nice way for brand new people for the genre to get used to the building process, and when they have the hang of that, will probably switch over the the current “advanced” mode to work quicker.

    Pretty much the only other things I can think of is the small issue with paint values and the number not always matching up, especially if you move the slider fast, and a recommendation would be a section in the Help Menu should be dedicated to each of the three control styles that also tell the (sometimes hidden) controls of each.

    December 8, 2016 at 6:54 AM #134653
    lorddelvinlorddelvin
    Participant
    Warrant Officer
    Total posts : 456

    one thing I would like to change in the garage….well the other posts covered almost everything(good job all)…I would like to see a larger Font….I cant read half the parts or the stats or just about anything 🙂

    one thing I like about the garage…3D rotation around my build zooming in and out…makes me happy

    wish list multiplayer garage meeting places…where we can get together with other players and build simultaneously…truth be told my time in garage is equal and more then likely much more in the garage then ever in the field would be nice if we could chill working on builds whilst bull shitting and watching others wrench on their mavs. also how bout an in garage firing range so you can test shot patterns distances and such right from the comfort of the garage you know some sand berms some disposable cardboard mavs of that look like legacy or serge builds and a box of shells….with ranges posted on signs next to the berms… kind of like a real range but for the big boys…so you have a button up near the weapons button at top right that says range. that button will bring you into the “range” which would be the zoom in option for your current weapons groups looking down at a basic range and basic targets the with a click of a button boom you are back in full garage…this option would add a huge plus to current garage system because there are some of us “more then likely most of us” that will tweak every barrel and position over and over again to get a shot pattern correct and having to go through and set up real matches to test fire is a pain in the arse!

    December 8, 2016 at 7:18 AM #134654
    LegacyElite84LegacyElite84
    Moderator
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Total posts : 2516

    wish list multiplayer garage meeting places…where we can get together with other players and build simultaneously…truth be told my time in garage is equal and more then likely much more in the garage then ever in the field would be nice if we could chill working on builds whilst bull shitting and watching others wrench on their mavs. also how bout an in garage firing range so you can test shot patterns distances and such right from the comfort of the garage you know some sand berms some disposable cardboard mavs of that look like legacy or serge builds and a box of shells….with ranges posted on signs next to the berms… kind of like a real range but for the big boys…so you have a button up near the weapons button at top right that says range. that button will bring you into the “range” which would be the zoom in option for your current weapons groups looking down at a basic range and basic targets the with a click of a button boom you are back in full garage…this option would add a huge plus to current garage system because there are some of us “more then likely most of us” that will tweak every barrel and position over and over again to get a shot pattern correct and having to go through and set up real matches to test fire is a pain in the arse!

    Yes. Yes. And yes.

    December 8, 2016 at 9:37 AM #134657
    Cyberdogs7
    Participant
    Colonel
    Total posts : 3214

    wish list multiplayer garage meeting places

    I can 100% visualize this in my head.

    Coding it, blagh.

    But, if we can visualize it, we can build it!

    [At least that’s the crazy attitude that started it all 5 years ago.]

    December 8, 2016 at 11:51 AM #134661
    LegacyElite84LegacyElite84
    Moderator
    Lieutenant Colonel
    Total posts : 2516

    We believe in your insanity. In all reality, we’ve been enforcing it.

    December 8, 2016 at 12:21 PM #134662
    Cyberdogs7
    Participant
    Colonel
    Total posts : 3214

    We believe in your insanity. In all reality, we’ve been enforcing it.

    What good is a junkie without a bunch of enablers around? 🙂

    [That was terrible, but just funny enough to still post]

    December 8, 2016 at 1:22 PM #134664
    AxleNo7
    Participant
    First Lieutenant
    Total posts : 865

    DO IT

    December 8, 2016 at 3:17 PM #134665
    SergeDavidSergeDavid
    Moderator
    Colonel
    Total posts : 3065

    Have the save / load buttons in the weapon group and paint screens.

    Have the camo pattern examples being a better color choice / use the current colors selected.

    Selecting a weapon slot in a group and then selecting a different slot switches the contents. This is different then selecting the different gun normally.

    Add parts remembering where you where.

    Add parts filter reworked so it works again.

    December 8, 2016 at 4:25 PM #134667
    Anvildude
    Participant
    Major
    Total posts : 1884

    I’m not sure it’s ever worked fully. I know that you can sort via weight, though. Just gotta figure it out manually.

    But yeah, having the ‘only show valid’ working properly would be nice, only showing parts you could add on without making the build invalid.

    December 9, 2016 at 2:50 PM #134681
    SergeDavidSergeDavid
    Moderator
    Colonel
    Total posts : 3065

    Aka all the settings I’ve got on the designer 🙂 gotta love html giving me all the base work.

    December 9, 2016 at 6:46 PM #134683
    TewdrigTewdrig
    Participant
    Warrant Officer
    Total posts : 467

    If you could only change 1 thing about the garage, what would it be?

    It’d be kinda’ cool if you could click a button to sort parts in the menu by stats, double click a stat and the parts with the highest stat you clicked are at the top of the menu and whatnot. That’d be cool, but not essential. It would be neat if the activity going on in the background was randomized or timed a bit, guys walking and doing stuff instead of being static, but that’s finishing touches levels of detail not functionality. I honestly don’t mind the garage as it is now, I’m content with it.

    If I could choose one thing, I would add a global chat to the bottom left. Like an IRC channel or something, you can chat with anyone else currently in their garage. Like tradechat in world of warcraft or something. Just shoot the shit with people while you build, that’d be cozy as fuck. But again I don’t think that’s so much functionality as finishing touches.

    I dunno man, I like the garage as is really. If I was super hard pressed to find something I had an issue with I’d say sometimes the “rotate part” button is a bitch to click without ripping the whole part and whatever is attached off.

    December 10, 2016 at 7:55 PM #134686
    Cyberdogs7
    Participant
    Colonel
    Total posts : 3214

    I dunno man, I like the garage as is really.

    I love you for this. This feedback is so much easier to take than creating 3 different systems for the garage 😉

    I do think the ‘nice to haves’ are at the point of being required features though.

    Also, I just built a complicated, perfect weight, skirt build. I would kill for a multi stage undo/redo at this point.

    [Can’t post the build yet! Also, it is not that great in battle]

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